Season 12 Ep.1 / Boundaries are NOT Mean
Alex (00:03.967)
Well, Brenda, we're back with a new season on boundaries. And I don't know if I can remember, but is this season 12? Season 12, a whole dozen seasons we have under our belt. And we're finally going to tackle the issue of boundaries. I feel like this is something you and I both talk about a lot in our personal lives and our professional lives. And we're finally going to bring this discussion to the podcast.
Brenda (00:12.332)
I believe so.
Brenda (00:16.302)
Nice.
Brenda (00:25.454)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (00:29.166)
Absolutely.
Alex (00:33.233)
knowing that we won't cover everything there is to say about boundaries, but just recognizing that it is such a pertinent topic to so many people.
Brenda (00:42.518)
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know about you, Alex, but I feel like particularly well for a long time in my Christian walk, I really resisted the ideas of boundaries. And I think kind of for two reasons. One is recovering people pleaser and people pleasers. usually don't do boundaries very well because as we're going to learn by the title even of our podcast is Boundaries and Invitation to Love that boundaries require being loving and people pleasers are fearful people. We're more motivated by fear than
Alex (00:51.507)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (00:59.23)
Right?
Alex (01:06.611)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brenda (01:12.432)
So that can really get in the way. I think also just when we're setting boundaries in that kind of that same vein of looking at love, it can feel very unloving or counterintuitive to love somebody when you are having to establish some boundaries. And then to be honest with you, I think early on in my Christian walk and some of the teaching that was coming out made me question like, is this just a way to get what I want or to impose my views and values on other people?
Alex (01:40.382)
Right.
Brenda (01:42.372)
be selfish. And so I think there was some misunderstanding for me. So maybe some doctrinal error along with my own personality bent that kind of got in the way of something that's actually very vital.
Alex (01:54.045)
Yes, and I think I would echo that, just some real misunderstanding that boundaries was selfish, but then also just because of the, even the biblical counseling tradition you and I were brought up in, like having to have a proof text for something meant that there was, I couldn't find a verse that used the word boundaries. And so for many years I just thought, well then I guess that's just not something we're supposed to do. And then just like we've talked about before, the grand narrative.
Brenda (02:14.027)
Right.
Alex (02:23.526)
and just pulling back and looking at the Bible more holistically and looking at ideas in the Bible that may not be named made me realize that boundaries is a really biblical topic and we're gonna talk about the biblical basis for boundaries in this season.
Brenda (02:32.546)
Yep.
Brenda (02:39.371)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think just to jump off this season, I think it's going to be really good for us to establish that the purpose of boundaries is always love. And why do we say that?
Alex (02:49.884)
Mm-hmm.
Well, again, I think there's this misconception that boundaries are selfish and we just want to point out that there's a biblical framework for boundaries that emphasizes boundaries as a way to honor God, to protect ourselves, yes, and to cultivate healthier relationships. And we want to see boundaries as a way of loving another well and loving God well, rather than viewing a boundary as a barrier. I think one of the
Brenda (03:22.093)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (03:22.216)
Metaphors I use is boundaries is offense with the gate and the gate is the way into relationship. And so we want to just think about boundaries a little bit more of not just a separation between you and me, but a way into relationship.
Brenda (03:25.783)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (03:38.734)
Yeah, and I think we have to realize that we have been talking about boundaries since we were little bitty kids being taught boundaries, right? And I just noticed when I'm with my one and two and a half year old grandchildren that it would be just mayhem if we didn't have any boundaries. And it's so funny because my grandson, who's two and a half, you know, is not the biggest fan yet. He's growing toward his little sister, but there's just that tendency, right, to want to hit her or kick her or we're FaceTiming when her mom,
Alex (03:45.574)
Yes.
Alex (03:55.045)
my.
Brenda (04:08.737)
His mom and dad were out of town and he's pushing his sister out of the way so he can get right in front of the camera and be the only one they see every time. And so, you know, I just, think we have to recognize that if we don't learn boundaries for ourselves, then we really are going to grow up being either pretty miserable or stepping on other people and making them miserable. So I think even as I've been thinking about the series, I was like, I don't know why I ever was opposed to boundaries.
Alex (04:31.602)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (04:38.607)
or reticent toward them. Like this is foundational for how we learn to grow and live in society and live in families and live with one another in a way that's healthy as opposed to, you know, being crazy and self-centered, right? Because without the boundaries, it really does create more self-centeredness.
Alex (04:46.046)
Yeah.
Alex (04:54.204)
Yeah, right.
Alex (05:00.594)
Yeah, I think that's a great point. And so sometimes when I talk about boundaries with people, I talk about the idea or I ask the question like, do you think Jesus was a boundary person? And I really believe that Jesus was one of the most boundary people. And I think even in the things that he said when we watch his life, he said that we should love each other as I have loved you. And I think when we watch his life, we see that he set wise limits. He knew how to love people and we
see him, if we read into the scripture a tone with Jesus that's selfish or unloving, then we're gonna have to adjust our definition of love, right? Because we know that he is the definition of love and what he is doing is loving. And I think sometimes some of the things that he says we can can almost bristle at it.
Brenda (05:42.221)
This
Brenda (05:51.808)
Yes, absolutely. Some of his actions toward people, it just makes us go, wait, is that loving? Can he do that? You know, so it does challenges. One of the definitions I have always just loved to give is that really boundaries come down to the two greatest commandments, love God, love your neighbor. So if we're going to love God, we're going to trust him with ourselves and others. And we're going to have to love our neighbor the way the scripture instructs. So I like to say that true love
Alex (05:55.58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, right
Brenda (06:21.711)
always sets the proper boundaries. If we can truly learn how to love God and love our neighbor, then these boundaries will be set.
Alex (06:29.924)
Mm-hmm. That's really good.
So in an attempt to find a definition of boundaries, many years ago, I had a group of counselors come into my office and we whiteboarded this because we wanted to have a definition that we felt reflected just God's heart, that boundaries are loving and they're a way to have relationship with other people. This is a definition we came up with and I really stuck with it for many years. Like even the longer I sit with it, the more
Brenda (06:43.021)
Mm.
Alex (07:02.144)
I really believe that this is the way to think about boundaries. So we said that boundaries is an invitation and that's an intentional word.
is not a demand, it is an invitation to treat another image bearer as God calls you to treat them. And then I like to remind people that sometimes the image bearer that you're calling someone to treat the way God calls you to treat them is you. And so you are reminding someone else how they need to treat you because of what God says. Another way to say this is we're inviting people to remember that we are all image bearers. And when we say that, we want to kind of highlight
Brenda (07:27.553)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (07:41.643)
forming things. We want to highlight the fact that God put in us dignity, agency, and purpose and that He made us limited creatures, that we have limitations. And so when we're calling people into how God says that we should be treated, we're calling them to say that we're that we are recognizing another person and our dignity, agency, purpose, and limitations.
Brenda (07:52.802)
you
Brenda (08:07.469)
Yeah, that's so good.
Alex (08:10.648)
Another definition that you and I both like that we've heard is that a boundary is calling someone from foolishness into wisdom. And I think that's Brad Hamburg's definition.
Brenda (08:20.525)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alex (08:24.572)
He says that a boundary is a line between folly and wisdom rather than a line between you and me. And so we're always facing another person. We're always trying to maintain relationship with them. And I think those two definitions fit together because if we're treating another image very the way God calls us to treat them, then we're treating them with wisdom.
Brenda (08:31.819)
Yep.
Brenda (08:48.085)
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that example. I think it's actually Leslie Vernick who talks about like taking steps back but facing forward, arms wide open. Yeah, and I love that because it does always give that opportunity for repentance, but it does then put necessary distance at times. And sometimes you need one step and sometimes you need three steps and sometimes you need a mile. You know, as we're going to talk more about why and when that happens. But I think some other just simple synonyms for boundaries that I like are reasonable expectations.
Alex (08:55.044)
Mm-hmm, pacing forward. Uh-huh.
Alex (09:08.817)
Right.
Brenda (09:18.059)
I think in a day of so much unreasonableness and people who don't want to treat you as an image bear can be very unreasonable and convince you that you're being unreasonable. Then also just limits of wisdom or we might say loving limits as well. But I think what we're really trying to get, like really trying to say is that it's about love and wisdom. Like if we could just shuck it down to.
Alex (09:18.59)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (09:29.421)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (09:33.15)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Brenda (09:44.105)
What a boundary is, is tied to love and love is going to be expressed in wisdom.
Alex (09:49.971)
Mm-hmm.
So in saying all that, let's just talk about what a boundary does. We're gonna talk about three main categories of what a boundary does. We think that a boundary protects and honors me as an image bearer, protects and honors others as image bearers, and protects and honors the glory of God. So how do we break this down into kind of bite-sized pieces so we can understand it? I think we start off with boundaries protect and honor me, the image bearer.
Brenda (10:21.697)
Yeah, and so one of the first things we want to look at is this idea again, we're going back to what you said about what it means to be an image bearer, the dignity, the agency, the purpose and limitations. And we're going to walk through this with each of these categories, but boundaries protect my God given dignity because I am made in his image and I'm not to be trampled upon or controlled or shaped and molded into the demands of another person.
Alex (10:37.382)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alex (10:45.756)
And this is where I think we feel like we're being selfish or self honoring instead of recognizing that this is, we are recognizing what God has done in creating us. And so we have to have a self, we have to bring a self into a relationship. We have to bring a person into relationship. And I think so much Christian teaching, which you touched on earlier, is that
Brenda (11:02.871)
That's right.
Alex (11:15.71)
we erase ourselves and I don't see that anywhere in scripture. It does say we honor people more than ourselves, but even that implies that there's a self in the relationship, right? That self doesn't get erased and put away so that I can be in relationship with you. Myself has to come into relationship with you. And God says that there's a way to treat me as a person.
Brenda (11:19.629)
Hmm.
Brenda (11:26.273)
Yep.
Brenda (11:36.737)
Yeah.
Absolutely. What I think just going back, maybe a good word would be we might see this as self-exalting. And that's not what we're saying. We're saying exalting the image of God in us, not exalting necessarily, you know, us for selfish reasons or self-exalting. Another area of boundaries when we think about for ourselves, it protects our God-given agency. And then that just allows us to make decisions according to our own integrity in areas that are not clearly defined by Scripture.
Alex (11:43.676)
right
Alex (11:53.308)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (11:59.614)
Mm.
Brenda (12:08.174)
those areas that are even a matter of conscience.
Alex (12:10.589)
And there's so many of those and I think those can get lost in relationship because I want you to think the way that I think about things and I'm not often willing to recognize that there's a lot of gray that we live in, a lot of things that aren't clearly defined by scripture where scripture gives us freedom to live in step with the Holy Spirit of how we do things and I need to be able to honor that you can make those decisions with the Holy Spirit's help.
Brenda (12:19.308)
Right.
Alex (12:40.543)
and I can make a different decision that you can honor.
Brenda (12:43.884)
That's right, absolutely. Well, why you take the next one, Alex?
Alex (12:47.811)
So we say boundaries protect our God-given purpose. And I think that's important because we realize that each person has been given a purpose by God. And so boundaries help us to have a clear yes and a clear no. So we're gonna have to prioritize in order to do the things that God's called us to do.
A boundary often allows me to be able to commit to the things that I believe God calls me to. And again, this is going to be an individual decision with the Holy Spirit that I can't tell you what that is for you. I can't tell you what's most important in any given situation or in any given season of life. That's for you and the Spirit to decide. And so it protects our ability to walk with the Spirit in what God's purpose is for
Brenda (13:21.228)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (13:25.706)
Yeah.
Alex (13:39.44)
lives.
Brenda (13:40.397)
Yeah, so a lot of people love you and have a wonderful plan for your life, Alex. It's a good thing you have healthy boundaries against me or with me or for me or invited me into them.
Alex (13:46.59)
Looking at one of those people. I know. Because I would be a really busy woman if I did all the things that you think I should be doing.
Brenda (13:58.637)
Too many ideas, too many ideas. That's so good. You won't know what your yeses are if you haven't established your no's. knowing your no's is really important and being affirmed in those with the Lord is really important. So the last one is we're talking about just how do boundaries honor and protect me is that boundaries protect my God-given limitations. And so you think about things like our emotional well-being, physical, spiritual health. We want to be able to
Alex (14:06.88)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (14:28.59)
walk freely with the Lord, and we don't want to be bowing down to other people and then being remade in their image. And now they're placing demands on our limits, which is actually exhausting and depleting us.
Alex (14:34.365)
Hmm.
Alex (14:41.169)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, and I think this is the place where we sweet we hear this cliche if you are feeling resentful That's a good indicator that your boundaries are being violated and I find personally if I'm feeling resentful It's usually boundaries on my limitations are being violated. So I'm overextended. I'm tired I'm maybe not just physically tired, but emotionally tired because I've over committed myself I've said yes to too much and then
I find myself resentful of everyone in my path because I blame them, not myself, for not saying no. I blame them for demanding these things of me. And so if I'm honoring my God given limitations, it's gonna feel uncomfortable maybe for other people to hear my no and it's often gonna be uncomfortable for me to give my no. But this is where I think we're able to really love people because we're not saying yes out of compulsion, right? We're saying yes because
Brenda (15:15.18)
Right.
Brenda (15:34.529)
Yeah.
Brenda (15:40.971)
Yep.
Alex (15:41.919)
because we truly want to love them and sacrifice for them, but we're not doing that over our own physical, emotional, or spiritual limitations.
Brenda (15:51.423)
Yeah, there's nothing better than asking somebody to do something and they do it with just such disdain and bitterness and hostility. Right? Because that's so loving as well.
Well, talking about other people, the second part of this is that boundaries protect and honor others who are also made in the image of God. And so it protects the God-given dignity of another person, not just our dignity. And then, you know, I think part of what you said, you used the word inviting very intentionally because we're not demanding that people treat us a certain way. We're asking them, we're inviting them, we're sharing.
Alex (16:25.661)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (16:32.598)
with them our limitations or our purpose or whatever it is that we want them to understand. But if they choose not to and they choose to violate those, then there's going to be some consequences involved with that, which we'll talk about later.
Alex (16:47.069)
And that protects their dignity by giving them that dignity of choice and that's the second one that we protect another person's agency. So we're really reminding people that they have a choice in how they conduct themselves in relationship. They can choose not to sin, they can choose to love well and we hold them accountable to their actions. And that's the really hard part about boundary.
Brenda (17:15.972)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because we can't change that other person. And I think this is where we get in trouble wanting to control, wanting to change, wanting to warn, wanting to nag, whatever, because I think we get really focused on their agency instead of our agency. Which gets... No, go ahead.
Alex (17:27.472)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (17:31.769)
Right, and I think this is a good, I'm sorry, I think it's a good test too of whether we're manipulating someone because if we're really putting the ball in their court and we're inviting them to something but we're not trying to coerce them in any way towards that because we're honoring the fact that they have a choice here and we want them to make a loving choice but we can't control that.
Brenda (17:41.664)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (17:57.942)
Yeah.
And I think again, that just kind of leads into the next one and that's that it protects a person's purpose, right? Like we remind others who they were created to be, not necessarily allowing them to behave who God didn't create them to be, but again, calling them higher. And the opposite of that is we end up enabling, right? And when we do that, they're made, people are made to glorify God. This is our purpose. And I think particularly when we look at the Christians in our life who know they have that calling.
Alex (18:04.027)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (18:11.951)
Right
Alex (18:17.382)
Yes.
Brenda (18:28.852)
But even the non-Christians are made in God's image. And I think so often when we enable people, we just allow them to continue to be less than who God created them to be.
Alex (18:39.287)
Mm-hmm. So we're going down these really quickly and I just want to break in and say like we're gonna unpack this of how we do this because this is such intricate complex and often really nuanced work.
Brenda (18:52.874)
Yeah.
Alex (18:53.725)
even this one in particular of where are we enabling somebody and where are we protecting their God-given purpose. And so we're going to talk about the challenges of setting boundaries in a future episode. So we're just trying to lay a foundation here to build on the complexity of boundaries and hope that people will hang with us and realize that we're just not saying, hey, this is easy. Just go out there and set some boundary.
Brenda (19:18.806)
Yeah.
Yeah, and especially because I think as we put this in these categories of what's being violated, we just want to understand like what is happening and why is this image bearing so important? I think this last point really that boundaries protect another God's limitation speaks to this so clearly because God has placed limits on how we are to treat one another. We are not to trespass those limits and we do violence to others or people do violence to themselves, right, and to me when they trespass what God says.
Alex (19:27.793)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (19:34.717)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (19:38.556)
Yeah.
Brenda (19:49.343)
and I love Rabbi Foreman and is one of the the rabbis that I listen to and he just talks about how the Ten Commandments could be summarized with simply do not violate God or others and how that word violate and violence are from the same root word in Latin. Yeah which is really interesting so again when we talk about image-bearing and how precious
Alex (19:59.933)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (20:05.908)
that's interesting.
Brenda (20:12.68)
we are to God as image bearers that God has this whole standard of like, don't violate me and don't violate your neighbor. Don't do violence to me and don't do violence to your neighbor because it goes back again, the greatest commandments to love God and to love your neighbor. Don't do violence. And really, that's what's happening when we trample on somebody else. We're doing violence to them, but it's also doing violence to us. And that's kind of this point of how we're protecting and honoring others when we hold them accountable.
Alex (20:14.833)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (20:28.519)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (20:33.82)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (20:42.574)
and when we have God honoring limits.
Alex (20:44.989)
So our last category, that boundaries protect and honor God's glory, I think this can be hard to see.
but I think it's an important point that ultimately boundaries honor the God who created us, that he's the one who determines how we are treated and that this puts him in his rightful place as creator and it safeguards our worship of him. I think this is an important point, Brenda, because early on, think Dr. Cloud and Drs. Cloud and Townsend were the first ones that I knew of, there could have been others to break into Christian circles
Brenda (21:22.048)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alex (21:24.863)
start to talk about boundaries. And you know, it was new and I want to give a ton of grace when I say this, but their definition was something along the lines of like, I let you know what's acceptable behavior to me. And I always was, that was probably part of the reason I was uncomfortable with boundaries because it felt very me centered and it kind of felt a little bit to me like, who?
Brenda (21:45.654)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (21:49.219)
Who am I really to say that? Because on any given day I might be like, don't even talk to me. And that doesn't really seem very God honoring or loving. And so,
I think this is such an important point because what we want to remember is that what we're calling somebody to is what God says about treating other image bearers. So I don't get to just wake up today and decide no one in my house can talk to me because I don't feel like seeing them, right? That's not the loving way that God calls me to treat an image bearer.
Brenda (22:10.347)
That's right.
Brenda (22:14.793)
Yeah.
Brenda (22:20.765)
Yeah, and I just have to say too, I think in their later works, they are much more nuanced and they come around to this idea of being much more God-centered, Christ-oriented, and much more biblical in their approach. So yeah, and that's encouraging to see two people who started off with some really good work and some good ideas, but it was in the infancy and how they brought that into more maturity and more aligned with Christ's teachings. So I think that's beautiful.
Alex (22:25.06)
Yes.
Alex (22:30.651)
Yeah.
Alex (22:44.06)
I know. It's like we can grow and we can change.
Brenda (22:46.601)
That's right. And we are. I think this whole idea of boundaries protecting and honoring God's glory just calls us back to that first commitment, right? That first commandment that God gives us to love him with our heart, our mind, our soul, our strength, all the things with all of our being. And when we trust him, we're going to obey him and we can set limits according to his will. And when we do that, we are actually showing his worth and declaring his greatness. And the focus is
Alex (22:55.409)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (23:16.575)
on him and that's what we that's what we want to do. We want to honor God. We want to glorify God with our lives and having good, godly, wise, loving limits is such a helpful way to do that.
Alex (23:27.868)
Well, we thought to make this a little bit more where we live practical, we would give a case study, a really short case study to help it be more relatable. So this case study is a mother and daughter and I'm going to read it and then we're just going to talk through what a simple boundary might look like.
So Maria loves her son and wants to remain close to his new wife, Rachel. But over time, Maria begins stepping in too far, criticizing Rachel's parenting, offering unsolicited advice, and even telling her son how things should be done. Rachel feels controlled, disrespected, and anxious, but she also fears seeming ungrateful or unchristian if she pushes back.
After prayer and counsel, Rachel realizes she needs to set a clear, kind boundary. So one evening when Maria begins correcting her in front of the children, Rachel calmly says, I love that you care so much about our family, but I need you to trust me with parenting decisions. If advice comes without being asked, I'm gonna step out of the conversation. Yes.
Brenda (24:39.019)
Mmm.
Nice. Well, I'm just wondering what I mean, I think what would my temptation be one probably to say nothing and then go complain to my husband the whole time and talk bad about my mother-in-law, right? Like being defensive immediately. And so I mean, even as you're reading this, I think, wow, there's just, takes a lot of growth to be able to set wise limits and then to continue to respond with wise limits. So let's see what this boundary does, Alex. First of all,
Alex (24:51.041)
Yes, yeah.
Alex (25:00.271)
Hmm.
Brenda (25:10.477)
By setting this limit, Rachel, who's the daughter, protects and honors herself before the Lord, right? She refuses to be diminished or reshaped by her mother-in-law's control, and she honors her God-given dignity, right, of being a mother, and guards her heart so she can mother the way God wants her to mother, with peace and in strength.
Alex (25:19.01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alex (25:33.692)
And I think even just in the way you set it up Brenda, we realized that the boundary enables her to truly love her mother-in-law and not go talk behind her back, which I think, yeah.
Brenda (25:45.354)
Right? Right? Or just to internalize it and build resentment. Because I'm just thinking you're either going to go, you know, talk to all your husband, your friends, your neighbors and everything, or you're just going to internalize and see them be really angry and it's just going to come out sideways. So yeah, absolutely.
Alex (25:50.755)
Right.
Alex (26:00.047)
Right? And then as we said, the boundary protects and honors Maria, the mother-in-law, the other person in this scenario, because Rachel stops Maria from taking God's place in her life and her family. It would be easy for Rachel to just turn her orientation to what God calls her to do and put it on her mother-in-law and do what she calls her to do, because that's kind of going to be the path of least resistance.
Brenda (26:24.889)
there's another path. Mm-hmm.
Alex (26:26.012)
And so the limit protects Maria from continuing down this path of sinful control, criticism, manipulation, and it calls her back to her rightful role as the parent and the grandparent.
Brenda (26:40.747)
Yeah, that's so good. All right, so how does it protect and honor God's glory?
Alex (26:46.318)
I think it protects and honors God's glory again that it shows that Rachel wants to look to the Lord and trust him and walk in obedience to him. So she's worshiping him by not bowing to human control, setting a God-honoring limit is going to help her remember that her ultimate loyalty is to the Lord and not to pleasing people.
Brenda (27:08.395)
Yeah, I think that's so good because I think we've set up several scenarios of where you could go that would be so unloving in so many ways. I love this example. Well, I think our takeaway from the story about Rachel Maria basically is boundaries aren't about selfishness or rejection. They really are about worship, love and dignity. And it does protect me. It protects others from sin and it protects the glory of God in my life.
Alex (27:15.002)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alex (27:34.82)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (27:35.271)
And we're gonna continue to drill down on that and show how that's done in this entire series. But Alex, before we leave the podcast today, we need to talk about what a boundary is not. Yeah.
Alex (27:46.107)
Yeah, and I think it's been implied in so much of what we said, but I think it's good for us to articulate that a boundary is not about punishment or vengeance or not trying to get back at someone. And it's also not about controlling the other person. It's about inviting them to steward themselves and for me to steward myself. So that boundary says like, this is where I end and this is where you begin.
Brenda (28:10.411)
Mm-hmm.
And I think for a lot of relationships, that one sentence can be hard to distinguish. Where do you begin and where do I end? And that's a very important, I think, distinguishing mark to make in a relationship. I think also it's not rooted in pride. And I think a lot of what we're talking about here is just motivations, right? Like what is the motivation for the boundary that we're setting? it needs to come from a humble place. And I think just in the example with
Alex (28:16.623)
Yes.
Alex (28:20.528)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (28:37.776)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (28:41.543)
Maria and Rachel. think Rachel, the way she even expressed her desire to her mother-in-law was very humble. It was very kind.
Alex (28:48.856)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then finally boundaries are not self-centered. So that we have legitimate limits and we need to address real needs that we have around those limits and not felt needs, which is another hard thing to distinguish. And just remember that boundaries are not about becoming increasingly self-centered, but becoming increasingly more loving.
Brenda (29:16.947)
Yeah, that's so good. All right, well, let's summarize what we've said today in a few bullet points so we can kind of synthesize it all, because we're going to have a lot of points. We have a lot of information in this series, as we always do, so we want to try to kind of bring it down to where there's just a few things we can remember. The first one is just to remember that boundaries are not barriers. They are bridges that clarify how to love well.
Alex (29:26.084)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (29:38.97)
Mm-hmm. And we get back to our definition that a boundary is an invitation to treat an image bearer, including ourselves, who has dignity, limitations, agency, and purpose.
Brenda (29:52.361)
Yep. Boundaries protect and honor me as God's image bear others by not enabling sin and God by preserving worship and obedience.
Alex (30:01.24)
and to remember that Jesus himself said no very often and so we can be like him and we can act in love by saying no and that that prevents harm, it fosters accountability and it even reflects God's character.
Brenda (30:03.88)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (30:16.714)
And we need to check our motivation, make sure that we're not establishing boundaries out of punish or vengeance or pride. And just remember that this is really a stewardship issue of ourselves and other people in our walk with Jesus.
Alex (30:29.988)
Yeah. And then the last thing is that healthy boundary setting frees us up. It gives us a big yes with integrity. We can say yes to people and the callings that God has entrusted to us. So boundaries is not just saying no, it is a yes to something that God calls us to.
Brenda (30:47.594)
Great. All right. Well, that's lesson one. One of the things we're going to do with the series is provide a worksheet for each podcast that we're hoping our listeners can use to either think through how they're setting boundaries in their own life or maybe they want to help somebody else who's struggling with setting boundaries. And so we want to encourage you if you would like to receive the workshop, the worksheet or have access to it, then go to our website at knownministries.com and sign up for our email. And I think
Alex (31:03.418)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (31:17.578)
That's how that will be sent to you or you'll get access for it. And yeah, so we'd love for you to do that. And we'd love for this to be a real working episode. Like every time you listen to an episode, make it a part of your practice to go and to really use it as homework and a way to identify and walk through maybe a difficult relationship in your own life or somebody else's.
Alex (31:38.012)
And then in our next episode we're going to be talking about the biblical basis for boundaries.
Brenda (31:45.012)
All right, great, well we'll see you then, Alex.