Season 12 Ep.2 / Boundaries Are in the Bible
Brenda (00:02.958)
Hey Alex, good to see you again.
Alex (00:03.844)
Hey Brenda!
Brenda (00:06.912)
We are continuing season 12 our series on boundaries, which we are calling an invitation to love. And this episode we want to talk about boundaries in the Bible because I think oftentimes we have been taught or personally think because boundaries are hard that they might be something unloving. And so there is not as you said last episode, there's not one proof text that we're going to say where the Bible says this is how you set a boundary or this is what a boundary is that we want to
Alex (00:13.787)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (00:36.866)
look at the whole of scripture, kind of an overview from Genesis to Revelation, a very high overview, and begin to see what the Bible has to say and what God's heart is ultimately on this issue of boundaries. So just to recap the last episode, we talked about what are boundaries, and we kind of said that we might call them loving limits or wisdom, the limits of wisdom or wisdom in limits, or just even reasonable expectations.
Alex (00:42.523)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (00:58.737)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (01:05.486)
And we want to think about boundaries because they are a way that we honor and protect the image of God in us and in others, as well as honor and protecting God's glory.
Alex (01:20.699)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (01:21.27)
So today we're going to look at some biblical bases for setting boundaries and we would say in our estimation, and there may be more, but where we've kind of summarized is to say maybe the most robust arguments for setting boundaries stem from two primary areas. And the first one is we want to look at God's own example of who He is and what He does in setting limits. And then we want to also look at what the Bible says, how the Bible calls believers to be wise and self-contradictory.
Alex (01:44.443)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (01:51.184)
and good stewards of the lives that God has given to us.
Alex (01:55.545)
Yeah, so we just want to keep saying that boundaries are not a contradiction of Christian love, but they're a necessary part of it. So protecting our hearts so we can love others from a place of health rather than depletion. So we can choose.
Brenda (02:04.835)
Yeah.
Brenda (02:11.918)
Hmm.
Alex (02:15.034)
how we want to sacrifice and not do it out of fear of man or people pleasing. And so we're gonna look at just all different ways the Bible talks about boundaries that may not be ways that we had thought of before. But we wanna just remember that it's not a new idea that God himself is a boundary setting God.
Brenda (02:28.77)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (02:35.428)
And we see that even from the opening chapter of the Bible. Kurt Thompson said, six years ago, I wrote an article entitled, Yes and No, about how love is not only expressed in God's generous welcome, but also in his restraint that in the very center of his great yes, we also encounter his no.
And he says, our brains are designed in the same way to flourish not only through freedom, but through the pruning that comes when we say no to what might otherwise harm us.
Brenda (03:10.318)
That's so good and I'm just reminded of John 15 where Jesus said, prune so there will be more growth.
Alex (03:17.194)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (03:17.728)
right, that oftentimes this pruning that we have to do in boundaries is going to actually allow us to live more out of our image-bearing, call somebody else to live more out of their image-bearing, and then bring more honor and glory to God. So that's beautiful. I love that. Well, God instituted boundaries for the good of mankind, Alex, and also for the salvation of his people. And what we want to do is we, know how much you love the grand
Alex (03:35.494)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (03:47.585)
narrative. So I appreciate you thinking through this. was like, Alex, take this and run it through the grand narrative and let's see what we can get. Because I knew you could do it so well. But we just want to do a super high level just tracing God's hand and this thread of boundaries through the grand narrative. So I'm going to kick us off with creation because it's always the easy one. And I like to get the easy part of this and leave the complicated parts to you. But in creation, we can see that God separated and established boundaries to bring
Alex (03:48.282)
Mm-hmm
Alex (03:52.538)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (03:59.906)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (04:07.866)
Yeah.
Brenda (04:17.498)
out of chaos. And when we think about light and darkness, and we think about the skies and the seas, and then God set limits of what was good and even what was very good. And then there were consequences that He established for crossing those limits. So we see wisdom and love coming together right here at creation in this idea of boundaries. All right, then we also see what happens when boundaries are trespassed. And that takes us to the fall, right, that Adam and Eve
Alex (04:18.992)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (04:27.919)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (04:36.578)
huh. Mm-hmm.
Alex (04:43.801)
Yes.
Brenda (04:47.648)
God's boundaries and then what happens? There's consequence. Sin and death enter the world and they're put out of the garden. So, mean, we just we barely open up our Bibles and we see the wisdom and love coming together and the God who has boundaries and institutes these boundaries with consequence.
Alex (04:54.394)
Hmm.
Alex (04:57.754)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (05:05.424)
Yeah.
And so we see in the fall that Adam and Eve were put out of the garden. Another way to say it is they are separated from the presence of God. And all through the Old Testament, then we see all these ways that man tried to get back to God, be God for themselves, have a king to be their God, prophets, judges, all these things, all these ways that they tried to get back to God. And then we see in the redemption story that
comes and he clearly presents himself as the only way to be back in right relationship to the Father. And so in a lot of ways we even said last episode that Jesus is the ultimate boundary setter. He lets us know that there's one way to God and it is through him. And then we look for, do you want to say something about that?
Brenda (05:48.846)
Mmm.
Brenda (05:56.01)
Yeah, I'm just gonna say, could we go as far as to say even that Jesus is a boundary within himself? Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about that. That's really kind of cool to think about. And can we also say that maybe it's part of the reason we have such a love-hate relationship with boundaries, like rooted so deeply in the gospel message.
Alex (06:01.06)
I think he is. I do.
Alex (06:12.504)
Yeah.
It's funny you say that because there is one verse that I know of that has the word boundary in it. It's in Psalm 16 and it says the boundary lines have fallen for me in clear and pleasant places and I remember Psalm 16 is one of my favorite Psalms and I meditated on that for a long long time and many years before. What opened up for me was that Jesus himself is the boundary.
Brenda (06:27.285)
Yes.
Brenda (06:38.316)
Mm-hmm. So good.
Alex (06:39.146)
And so he's the one that hems us in. And you're right. I think we see, if we pull this thread of boundary through the scripture, that Jesus is the boundary and a boundary to the Father and a way to the Father. And it goes again to our place of a boundary is a fence but a gate because he also says he's the gate. So he's not just the boundary keeping people out. He's also the way in. We're going deep.
Brenda (07:01.155)
Yep.
Brenda (07:05.282)
That's right. Love it. Yeah, love it.
Alex (07:08.038)
I'm going go a little bit deeper because I think to see boundaries in the restoration story, we have to really be able to think through what the new heavens and the new earth are going to be, that Jesus is going to come and he's going to establish the new heavens and the new earth. And we see these verses in Revelation that kind of talk about boundaries, protecting people from their enemies. Revelation 21 shows this vision of the new heaven and the new earth as a city. It's also portrayed as a garden. And in the city, they had 12 foundations.
foundations and on the wall of the city they had 12 foundations and on them were the 12 names of the apostles of the land. But I think what I want to focus on and just thinking about even boundaries and restoration is that the new heavens and new earth will be a place boundary against the enemies of God. They will not be in the new heavens and the new earth where we are in fellowship with one another and with him.
Brenda (07:55.256)
Hmm.
Brenda (08:02.539)
man, that's just so exciting.
Alex (08:05.35)
How can you not love the grand narrative? Like every time it brings you full circle, yeah.
Brenda (08:07.246)
I do love the grand narrative. It is really awesome. it's a beautiful way to take one idea and just to see how we can pull that thread through the scripture and make a biblical argument as we're trying to. This is actually a God idea. It's not a new idea. It's an ancient idea. It's a God idea. And so, like we've been talking about, we can see it in the Old Testament. We just wanted to give a few other examples. You know, we do see God setting physical boundaries for the protection of
Alex (08:20.874)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
Alex (08:30.522)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (08:37.28)
people. He tells them where to go, where not to go, and who his enemies are, and not to let people inside the camp, so to speak. So there's this whole idea of protection and God using boundaries in that way. I think there's also this way of God using boundaries for provision, you know, that how he's going to provide for his people in certain ways and things they do and things they shouldn't do. And even just the boundaries of how to live in community well, right? Like how are they going to relate to one another? He establishes laws and
Alex (08:37.829)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (08:50.232)
Yes.
Alex (09:01.178)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (09:07.12)
again, he imposes consequences when those laws are broken and people go beyond that. you know, I think sometimes when we read the Old Testament, again, it can be challenging because we can see how serious God is about His holiness and how serious He is about how we treat one another, His image-bearers. And so we can see Him putting people outside the camp, not as an act of hatred, but to preserve His presence, right?
Alex (09:27.322)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (09:37.022)
His presence was very much dependent on them and to protect the covenant community, they were tribal in nature and so they really needed to protect their neighbor and to be about their neighbor just for survival. And then this idea of encouraging repentance. So I think we can look at them sometimes as, gosh, these boundaries, you know, that God's created, they just seem so harsh and sometimes even cruel. But when we can look at them as God's protection and provision, and I think that protection oftentimes was either from the holiness
Alex (09:47.642)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (09:58.086)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (10:06.935)
of God, right? Or the violation, or we talked about last episode, the violence that they could perpetuate against one another. And so all of these, as we look at the Old Testament, I think every time we come across a boundary, a physical boundary, a spiritual boundary, a provisional boundary, whatever they are, I think it would be good for us to stop and say, what loving thing is God doing here? What way is He trying to demonstrate
Alex (10:08.046)
Right.
Alex (10:13.463)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (10:32.698)
Yeah, that's a great question.
Brenda (10:37.036)
love for his people and teach them how to love him and one another.
Alex (10:40.71)
And I wonder when you're talking Brenda if many times the loving thing that God's doing is protecting them from the customs and the cultures around them and the things that are happening that he is prohibiting them from participating in for their own protection.
Brenda (10:51.669)
Yes.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, which puts them in a place of consequence with him, right? It's like no parent wants to spank their child, Alex. We really don't. We want our children to do the things we ask them to do because it's loving and it's going to be good for them. So, yeah.
Alex (11:01.518)
Right.
Right.
Alex (11:11.742)
Mm-hmm.
I think it can be easy to think that boundaries are an Old Testament principle because there is so much of establishing a people and establishing the holiness of God, but we see that boundaries are carried into the New Testament in so many ways. Oftentimes not with this physical removal, but we see a lot more relational boundaries for the purpose of protection, repentance, and restoration of people into the community of God.
And as we said last episode, we see Jesus himself as an example of setting boundaries. He recognized that he needed times to withdraw from the crowd to rest, to be with the Father. He walked away from manipulation, manipulative questions that were designed to trap him and people who wanted to harm him. And he didn't entrust himself to those who had bad motives. And so we see Jesus as a very boundaried person in the New Testament.
Brenda (11:53.527)
Yeah.
Brenda (12:08.32)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (12:12.936)
in.
Brenda (12:13.442)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (12:14.5)
And then we also see Paul as a very boundary person. I think it can be hard to realize in Paul's story that he almost set a boundary for himself, or I think the Lord really set a boundary for Paul. So Paul is persecuting, as Saul, he's persecuting the Jews. And when he has his Damascus Road experience and Jesus reveals himself to him, he removes Paul from public life for three years to get mentor.
Brenda (12:43.873)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (12:44.424)
And I think that three years was of course to grow Paul, but I think that three years was also for the Jewish people who he persecuted so that they could have a separation from him, that he could establish a different reputation, and they could have some time to work through forgiveness for the persecution that he did to them. And even when he returned to public life, what we see Paul do is that each city that he went into, he presented himself. He literally went
first to the synagogue, I think is an act of reconciliation to build a trust relationship back with the Jewish leaders that he offended. So we see this very abusive man and what he did in order to try to regain trust with them was to remove himself and to establish a different reputation.
Brenda (13:31.83)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (13:35.846)
I think that's so good, Alex. I know at the end of the series, we're going to talk about restoration, right? And I think this passage and or just this idea of Paul and his ministry is going to play so key when we begin to look at what does it look like from when a relationship is restored, the person who is wanting to restore the relationship, what it looks like, what would they do? And then how does it look when you're waiting for restoration to happen? I don't know that we see a lot of this in the church.
Alex (13:58.213)
Right?
Alex (14:02.201)
Mm-hmm
Alex (14:06.243)
No.
Brenda (14:06.4)
I think we see a lot of either people moving away forever and ever and ever or people jumping back in too quickly. But that's for the last episode, so we'll leave it there. But I think that was really well said.
Alex (14:11.781)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then I think we also see the other disciples that Jesus had instructed them to walk away, to shake the dust off of their feet when people were rejecting the truth. And so as we see the gospel spreading in the early church, we see them put this into practice, that they walk away from people who are not open or receptive. And that in and of itself is a boundary.
Brenda (14:31.628)
Yep.
Brenda (14:37.365)
Mm-hmm.
Well, we want to look at some key Bible verses before we wrap up this episode today. And I just want to say, I think this is important. These certainly, this is not an exhaustive list. These are just some of maybe the key ones we hear. I think on the flip side of this, there are a lot of verses that we hear that argue against wise boundaries. I think that we could probably make a list of, and might be even a good exercise, like what are the verses that keep you from wise limits and boundaries?
Alex (14:48.261)
Mm-mm.
Alex (14:57.581)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (15:08.481)
I think when we begin to look at the scripture so often if we have a problem setting boundaries and we have a problem thinking these are loving limits or that this is wisdom a lot of times is we have plucked scriptures out of context and We've really begun to feel like this is like no boundaries like to be a Christian means that you know You just go to the cross every day and you just get trampled upon and that there's you know I'm saying like there's there's no wisdom in how we're dealing with relationships With the Lord, so we're not going to address those Bible
Alex (15:08.5)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (15:19.607)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (15:38.374)
verses but if you have any we'd love to hear some of the ones that have tripped you up go to maybe some of our social media sites and let us know scriptures that have been used against you or scriptures that you use against yourself and we see this a lot with people that you know somebody who wants to manipulate you will definitely and they know you're a Christian can use scripture to absolutely be twisted and make you feel like any sort of limits are unbiblical
Alex (15:43.929)
That's a great idea.
Alex (15:49.026)
Yes.
Alex (16:00.729)
Yes.
Brenda (16:01.857)
But we've just already seen how limits and boundaries are rooted in the character of God and the work of God and what God does with Israel. And then we come to the New Testament. And honestly, the more you think about this and read your Bible, the more you begin to see God has a lot to say about how we need to interact with different kinds of people. And I know the next episode, we're gonna go more deeply into that, but we don't have a one size fits all.
Alex (16:20.601)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (16:29.855)
kind of
Alex (16:34.861)
Right.
Brenda (16:35.081)
formula. There's this bigger umbrella of yes, we're going to love everybody, but then what does love look like? So these are some ways we need to think about what does love actually look like. This Bible says these are ways to be loving as well. So I just right off the bat, I think about the Proverbs because you can't get very far in the Proverbs that you start hearing about the fool and the mocker and the scorner and the drunkard and all the things, the sexually immoral. basically the fool and the wicked are so often
Alex (16:44.579)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (16:54.299)
Right?
Brenda (17:02.015)
talked about in Proverbs and the scriptures tell us to separate from these kind of divisive people. And I don't know, I feel like there's just so much movement, you know, toward being loving and being kind and being forgiving. And again, all those are great attributes, but I think sometimes we miss some of these other warnings and instruction much to the detriment of ourselves to other people in God's glory.
Alex (17:06.797)
Right.
Alex (17:25.637)
Yeah, I think you're right. Verse in Romans, I think that we probably need to talk about, let's spend a little time talking about is this verse from Romans 12, 18. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
And I've had people use that in the context of not setting boundaries and we're going to turn it upside down and use it in the context of setting boundaries of saying, hey, in order to live at peace with everyone, boundaries are often really necessary.
Brenda (17:55.105)
Yep, absolutely.
Alex (17:57.068)
It reminds me of the Old Testament story of Jacob and Esau that I always laugh when I think about this story is that there's this place that Jacob and Esau Esau's mad at Jacob for stealing his birthright Jacob knows that Esau is coming after him with basically an army and Jacob is afraid and so they go and they encounter one another and they create this pact or this treaty between them and all their people
Brenda (18:16.438)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (18:27.001)
that they're responsible for and I think it's called it happened at Mizpa and I when we were younger Brenda people used to wear these necklaces these Mizpa coins do you remember this and what you would wear one half and I would wear one half and it would say the Lord watch between you and me when we're apart from one another and it was so sweet because they fit back together and later as an adult I learned that
Brenda (18:38.002)
I do. Yes.
Brenda (18:45.504)
Yeah.
Alex (18:51.491)
That was really a statement of boundary. That was not this romantic, aww, we're separate and God's gonna guard over us. Even though he is, it was really Jacob and Esau saying like, we really don't get along. We really don't see eye to eye. And so the Lord is gonna watch between us that we won't take each other out basically. And the Lord is gonna enforce
Brenda (19:10.316)
Mmm.
Brenda (19:17.58)
Wow
Alex (19:21.415)
enforce that. And when I learned that I just had to laugh because I thought that's so typical of what we do in the church. like we kind of romanticize it into this beautiful love story when really it's saying we don't know how to get along with one another in any way but we're willing to make this treaty not to harm one another and we're gonna acknowledge that God's gonna enforce it for us so if you violate it then God's coming after you.
Brenda (19:44.428)
Hmm.
Brenda (19:48.405)
Alice, I think that is just the epitome. I just wonder when Paul's writing Romans, if he's not just thinking of that exact story, right? Because Paul's got the Old Testament and the Old Testament stories and he's writing from the Old Testament. So I'm just thinking if he's sitting there thinking, hmm, you this story of Jacob and Esau, yep, they weren't to harm each other, but they also didn't have to be Bud's best friends and, you know, saddle up next to each other.
Alex (19:54.359)
Right.
Alex (20:11.445)
Which is really true in context too because what, Roman's nine and ten, he gets into Jacob and Esau, so he could be carrying that through.
Brenda (20:20.342)
There you have it. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. That's so good.
Well, I want us just to go through a few more of the verses that we come across in the scriptures. And again, I think one thing that's hard is we are also kind of cherry picking and plucking verses out of context. That's other side of the argument. But I think one thing that's really hard and maybe I just want us to go over these because I think there is a way that we sometimes we are always leaning toward one side or the other, right? Like we emphasize one side of the coin over the other. So
Alex (20:32.965)
For the other side of the argument.
Alex (20:50.031)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (20:53.902)
And I think when we when we think about the Bible promoting moving away from people or, you know, not being subject or church discipline and those sort of things, I think it's just it can be really, really hard for us to feel like this is a Christian thing to do. So in First Corinthians five, nine through 13, we have the story of Paul telling the Corinthians to expel the immoral brother. And of course, we know that he did that because by expelling him, the hope
Alex (21:09.231)
Yeah.
Alex (21:18.49)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (21:23.822)
was that it would bring him to repentance. And in fact, it did. We learned later on. So, but you know, we just, that's hard for us to think about. If somebody reaches a level of immorality and they're a part of our, they're professing Christians and they're in our world, like at what point do we just say, hey, we love you. But, you know, and of course this is a church. He's telling the church to do this. So I think also we gotta look at context of church versus individuals. And then if we're a part, if we're an individual part of a church, how do
Alex (21:27.972)
Yeah.
Brenda (21:53.775)
how do we respond to somebody like that? But the door is always open there for repentance, but the expulsion is stated in the Bible clearly.
Alex (22:01.443)
Yeah, I've heard, you know, Matthew 18 is the kind of the church discipline passages and I've heard these described as Matthew 18 being the slow process of church discipline and 1st Corinthians 5 being the fast track of discipline. Yes.
Brenda (22:14.538)
Yeah. And can I say both are needed? Sometimes I think people get really stuck on the Matthew 18 where you and I have been in situations where we're like, man, this needs to happen quickly. Yeah. Cause somebody's really being harmed in the situation too. I just think about other verses in Titus and Romans, we've got Paul again instructing the believers to keep away from divisive people.
Alex (22:37.614)
Mm-hmm.
Brenda (22:38.348)
And I think, you know, Paul's letter to the Ephesians that we need to speak the truth and love. So again, we're not doing these things in a harsh way, but we're doing them in a way that allows and helps people grow. I think we're just going back to like the motivation for all of this is still always loving. The biggest, I I just think about the people that I've had to have pretty strong boundaries in my life. I will say initially, I haven't always
Alex (22:58.105)
Mm-hmm
Brenda (23:08.462)
wish for their repentance, right? Like have to get my own heart, right? Like I just want protection. Sometimes I just want protection, I just want relief. And the protection and relief is really needed because they're not safe people. But I just think we always need to be praying that our heart would come back to, that this person would come to repentance. And yeah.
Alex (23:10.647)
Right?
Alex (23:18.574)
Yes.
Alex (23:27.057)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I've seen that oftentimes setting the boundary does give the safety for me to be able to love again. And so we want love to be the motivation, but oftentimes we're not feeling the love in that moment.
Brenda (23:42.88)
Yeah, I agree with that.
Brenda (23:50.123)
Right.
Alex (23:50.373)
And so we do, we may have to set some boundaries that create some distance so that love can be fostered again, love can grow again, and it does become more central to our motivation. Yeah.
Brenda (24:01.362)
Absolutely. I've seen that as well.
Alex (24:04.394)
One other verse that we talk about is Galatians 6 where we see this in the first couple of verses of Galatians 6 where we carry one another's burdens, but each person must carry their own. And I think that speaks to what we've talked about of each person having this agency and this God-given purpose and limitations on how we carry those out. And so we are all called to walk this dance where we do sacrifice and we do love one another,
but we don't do that without remembering that God has given us our own responsibilities to bear.
Brenda (24:41.484)
Yeah, because so often other people like for you to carry all their responsibilities too, you know, along with your own. So, yeah, we need to remember that. So let's do this, Alex. Let's just summarize what we've said in this lesson because it's a lot and we want people to be able to take away and synthesize the main points. So first of all, we're saying that boundaries are God's idea. They're woven into creation and into the law and even into redemption history.
Alex (24:45.966)
Mm-hmm
Alex (24:52.962)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (25:09.411)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and that God used boundaries in the Old Testament oftentimes to protect his people. We see that in the creation order and the Deuteronomy and Leviticus and all the laws. We see in the temple regulations and even in the instructions to send some people outside the camp. And I love your challenge that if we read those as a place where we're seeing cruelty from God, what happens if we put the lens on that God is holy and
loving and that these are loving limitations for his people and how do we see this differently if we remember his love.
Brenda (25:48.309)
Yep. In the New Testament, Jesus modeled boundaries. We even said that he is, he himself is boundaried. He withdrew to rest, refused manipulative demands, and entrusted himself to trust only to the trustworthy.
Alex (26:02.788)
And then we see Paul and the apostles reinforcing boundaries in relationships, teaching believers to separate from foolish divisive people and teaching them how to deal with unrepentance and in the lives of others.
Brenda (26:18.08)
Okay, healthy boundaries are not a contradiction to Christian living. They make love sustainable, truthful, and God-honoring.
Alex (26:26.08)
And then finally, we'll just say that God sets boundaries with us because He loves us. So when we set boundaries with others, we're reflecting His wisdom, His holiness, and His love in relationship.
Brenda (26:38.474)
Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that wraps up lesson two and we are providing some worksheets for each podcast and we hope that you'll take advantage of getting those and working through boundaries with maybe yourself or with somebody that needs some help working with boundaries. You can go to our website at noministries.com and sign up for our email and they will be sent straight to your email box.
Alex (27:03.108)
Our next episode, our next couple of episodes, we're going to get more into the nitty gritty. And so in episode three, we're going to talk about when, our boundaries needed.